Posted by 79 at 12:17pm Nov 13 '11Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that sitting here and saying "Yeah, I'd vote against my best interests" doesn't really mean all that much. Words are easy; action, on the other hand...
oh, i gotcha. but hey, this is just a message board, not a polling station. anyone could say they put their economic/political goals ahead of their own interests, of course. but, in starting the thread and asking the question, i was sort of hoping people would reflect a little. i'm getting tired of people championing causes as the "right way" and oh, it just so happens that your "right way" benefits you personally.
y'know, like my stances on cig tax versus the death tax (taxes are generally the easiest to find examples). instead of putting it in voting terms, i could rephrase it a bit.
i want the cig taxes lowered, even though my economic position would be counter to that (well, except in a place like NYC - $12 a pack is just fucking highway robbery). i want the death tax to be higher, because i think inheritance is a blight on society - especially when it becomes ridiculous. i'm not communist, but anyone who thinks it makes sense for some people to just get huge amounts of money without doing anything to earn it in any way.....well, i just don't understand that.
i guess just take the question as "what causes/measures/laws/etc do you support even if they're somehow detrimental to you personally, and which ones do you oppose even though they directly benefit you?"
Like I said, can't really think of any.
no offense, but that makes me highly suspect of your positions, then. like the quote in sov's profile: "it is safe to say you have made God in your own image when it turns out He hates the same people you do." i'm sure that some of your stances would be seen as detrimental by someone else in some way, right? if we do slash our over-bloated government, some people are going to have to give up things. whether they deserve them or not is irrelevant - they're gonna have to sacrifice.
and it's always a red flag, at least to me, when none of a person's positions involve any sacrifice on their part. it's always someone else that has to carry the weight in those cases.
Well, okay, that's not entirely true -- my federal income taxes do come back in the form of federal grants and such to the local schools. But there's no local income tax, no sales tax; pretty much just property tax. And while I really want to, I don't own any property. So I pay nothing at all in local taxes.
various tax structures like that are kinda fascinating. in most places i've lived, there were all those taxes, but there have been exceptions. new hampshire, for instance, has no state income tax. it works for a sparsely settled state, where individual town services plus state troopers and such basically cover everything.
they recoup it in two ways, though. the really smart one is liquor - all the liquor stores are run by the state. it only works because of the states surrounding it, though. vermont, maine, and especially massechusettes have high liquor taxes. NH sells it cheaply, and they know exactly what they're doing.
there's a huge liquor store about an hour up the highway from mass. when i was in college there, they built a new, bigger one - we're talking a third to a half the size of a wallmart superstore. and it's at a rest stop! well, it's more like the highway rest stop is at the liquor store.
time it took to pay for itself: less than a year.
also, other taxes as fees are higher. registering a car in NH is three or four times as expensive as other states i've lived in. rent is high, due to the property taxes, etc.
wow, i'm getting off topic.
Most of my ideals run parallel with personal freedoms, which I happen to also think are in my best interests.
yeah, most of my ideals are in my best interest, as well. for similar reasons, i suspect - we each think everyone is better off that way.
but again, if all your ideals are in your best interests, it's kinda tough to make a case that you have legitimate ideals based on rationality, y'know? because, unfortunately, there's no perfect solution for everyone....if everything is in my own interest, i'm asking other people to sacrifice something for me, without being willing to sacrifice something for them.
again, no offense intended whatsoever. i'm not trying to say you're selfish or callous or lying about your reasons for supporting your views, i'm just wondering in general, and you gave me a good jumping-off point =Ã
it's extremely blatant with some religions (or some religious people)...."it just so happens that God wants me to do what i wanted to do anyway! and disapproves of everything else!". in politics it's more hidden, since everyone talks about the greater good and never about who's going to have to give something up (with the exception of finding scapegoats, such as teachers, to blame everything on....but they're not teachers, soooo...)
oh, i gotcha. but hey, this is just a message board, not a polling station. anyone could say they put their economic/political goals ahead of their own interests, of course. but, in starting the thread and asking the question, i was sort of hoping people would reflect a little. i'm getting tired of people championing causes as the "right way" and oh, it just so happens that your "right way" benefits you personally.
y'know, like my stances on cig tax versus the death tax (taxes are generally the easiest to find examples). instead of putting it in voting terms, i could rephrase it a bit.
i want the cig taxes lowered, even though my economic position would be counter to that (well, except in a place like NYC - $12 a pack is just fucking highway robbery). i want the death tax to be higher, because i think inheritance is a blight on society - especially when it becomes ridiculous. i'm not communist, but anyone who thinks it makes sense for some people to just get huge amounts of money without doing anything to earn it in any way.....well, i just don't understand that.
i guess just take the question as "what causes/measures/laws/etc do you support even if they're somehow detrimental to you personally, and which ones do you oppose even though they directly benefit you?"
Like I said, can't really think of any.
no offense, but that makes me highly suspect of your positions, then. like the quote in sov's profile: "it is safe to say you have made God in your own image when it turns out He hates the same people you do." i'm sure that some of your stances would be seen as detrimental by someone else in some way, right? if we do slash our over-bloated government, some people are going to have to give up things. whether they deserve them or not is irrelevant - they're gonna have to sacrifice.
and it's always a red flag, at least to me, when none of a person's positions involve any sacrifice on their part. it's always someone else that has to carry the weight in those cases.
Well, okay, that's not entirely true -- my federal income taxes do come back in the form of federal grants and such to the local schools. But there's no local income tax, no sales tax; pretty much just property tax. And while I really want to, I don't own any property. So I pay nothing at all in local taxes.
various tax structures like that are kinda fascinating. in most places i've lived, there were all those taxes, but there have been exceptions. new hampshire, for instance, has no state income tax. it works for a sparsely settled state, where individual town services plus state troopers and such basically cover everything.
they recoup it in two ways, though. the really smart one is liquor - all the liquor stores are run by the state. it only works because of the states surrounding it, though. vermont, maine, and especially massechusettes have high liquor taxes. NH sells it cheaply, and they know exactly what they're doing.
there's a huge liquor store about an hour up the highway from mass. when i was in college there, they built a new, bigger one - we're talking a third to a half the size of a wallmart superstore. and it's at a rest stop! well, it's more like the highway rest stop is at the liquor store.
time it took to pay for itself: less than a year.
also, other taxes as fees are higher. registering a car in NH is three or four times as expensive as other states i've lived in. rent is high, due to the property taxes, etc.
wow, i'm getting off topic.
Most of my ideals run parallel with personal freedoms, which I happen to also think are in my best interests.
yeah, most of my ideals are in my best interest, as well. for similar reasons, i suspect - we each think everyone is better off that way.
but again, if all your ideals are in your best interests, it's kinda tough to make a case that you have legitimate ideals based on rationality, y'know? because, unfortunately, there's no perfect solution for everyone....if everything is in my own interest, i'm asking other people to sacrifice something for me, without being willing to sacrifice something for them.
again, no offense intended whatsoever. i'm not trying to say you're selfish or callous or lying about your reasons for supporting your views, i'm just wondering in general, and you gave me a good jumping-off point =Ã
it's extremely blatant with some religions (or some religious people)...."it just so happens that God wants me to do what i wanted to do anyway! and disapproves of everything else!". in politics it's more hidden, since everyone talks about the greater good and never about who's going to have to give something up (with the exception of finding scapegoats, such as teachers, to blame everything on....but they're not teachers, soooo...)
Re: I don't think I've ever had the opportunity - 79