Posted by Someone Else at 9:17pm Dec 2 '13I know you're not one of them, but when you try to assert that my arguments are one of a slippery slope, it's perfectly fair and legitimate to point out that it's the anti-gun groups who started us down that path.
Fair enough--but I never asserted that you were making slippery slope arguments. I suggested it, as something for you to agree with or refute, as a way of understanding you better. I don't really understand either side of the gun debate (this is part of why I don't have an opinion), so I was postulating some theories as to what your argument was--I wasn't trying to tell you what you were arguing. Sorry if I came off that way, though.
And that Sara Brady person scares the shit out of me. If your goal is to get rid of all guns in America because you think it's safer, more peaceful, reduces crime, etc...well, I may not agree with your logic, but I can definitely appreciate where you're coming from. But it really sounds like that group just wants to steamroll everybody, and that...is scary.
Now I have to point out that you're presenting anti-extremist arguments to me. Contrary to the repeated slanders on 4K, I do not and never have supported unregulated firearm ownership. I support NICS for example (although I disagree with how broad the "prohibited persons" list is), and I don't advocate for individuals to own grenade launchers.
Again, sorry if I came off as trying to paint your arguments in a certain way. I stay out of politics and debates on 4k for the most part--this is my social place, and I usually find that socializing and politics don't mix super well (not that they can't, and I have certainly enjoyed my share of debates here--just that it's far from the reason I come here). So, I really don't know anything about the way other 4kers talk about you or your stance on guns. I genuinely didn't know that you don't support free-for-all gun ownership. And I still say that extremist groups (on both sides, mind you) can bring up moderate legislation that can be a net benefit.
I think part of my lack of opinion on this issue is that I simply don't understand guns. I mean, I know what they are and what they do, but nuances of them...clueless. Your paragraph talking about collapsing stock guns may as well be written in Japanese for all the sense it made to me.
I'm not sure about facts, but I feel like at this point, we've dug our own grave on guns, in a way. That is, they've been so easy to obtain, relatively speaking, so by this point, there are too many out there to suddenly start taking them away and expecting gun crimes to go down. I know a common argument is that criminals are criminals, and won't likely obey a gun regulation law if they're willing to break other laws. If we'd made guns overall less obtainable in the past, maybe it would make a difference--there would be fewer guns floating freely in the world, unregulated by any means. Maybe that's part of what anti-gun folks are thinking...if they keep allowing guns to exist so freely, the problem's just gonna stay as bad as it is (and while gun crime is not astronomical by any means, it does exist). But if they start regulating it better, or just outlawing them entirely, maybe 20 years from now, guns would be much harder for criminals to get their hands on. But, that's just me speculating and thinking aloud a little bit.
Thank you for the slew of quotes and for explaining your opinion to me. I still don't have an opinion of my own on the issue, but I feel better educated and better prepared to start forming an opinion, having heard more from you (I seem to have more anti-gun friends than pro-gun friends, so have heard plenty of anti-gun arguments...or at least, more intelligent ones--it's an unfortunate trend that most of my vocal pro-gun buddies are testosterone-ridden morons I would never want to be around when they have a loaded gun, simply because I don't trust their basic intelligence to, say, keep it pointed in safe directions).
Off topic a bit: one of my favorite first dates was a guy taking me to the range in Fairbanks. I outshot him like crazy. I attribute it to beginners luck, and possibly him being jittery about being with a girl (very socially awkward--we never saw each other again after that, and I don't even remember his name at this point). But it was an epic first date, and I would be sad if things like that were made illegal (if it genuinely drastically reduced crime/increased safety, it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make--but I'm not convinced that it would). I've gone to gun ranges a few times, and always enjoyed myself--safely.
Thank you. - Someone Else