Posted by Kazper at 7:03pm Feb 1 '07We cannot be ruled, completely, by a moral principle (besides that ultimate principle which is a truth of our nature) simply because it is probably impossible for a moral principle to preconceive and solve every problem that may arise.
lol. "The truth will set you free." This couldn't possibly by more true with the truth that morality is relative and so that one is justified, internally and externally (though not necessarily relative to particular moralities) in doing ANYTHING. If there is an all powerful God it doesn't change this fact, though it does mean moralities which aren't encompassed by this God are fucked. Just like a society with a morality not encompassed by an other society that is much more powerfull and that forces their morality on others is fucked.
A society is an entity (a "womb" perhaps) that is created by the common desires of the individuals that it encompasses. Its only function is to facilitate the attainment of the common desires by the individuals... So, indeed ask what your country can do for you.
I want a society that can facilitate the attainment of my desires, so I need to seek out a bunch of nice perverts who want to fly around in space in cool uniforms and have a distinct language and technology. :D
A benefit of being around people who are like you and who want to be what you want to be is that it can help you become better at who you are and to become what you want to be.
What we are ultimately controlled by is our desires for pleasure, not by the... universe. It is most definitely possible to fight our "programming" to pull our hand out of the fire, yet the unpleasureable effects of the burn would most likely cause us not too. I think that if we determine a particular cause and its effects to be unpleasureable all the time it can become second nature for us to not do the cause. So we have programmed our selves... but our desire for pleasure can cause us to change our programming...
They probably know what pleasure is in a human and I think there is only one... type of pleasure and that it can come in different degrees. Let's just say that this is the case. Why do things cause pleasure? I don't think it's when a thing aids our survival (at least all the time) since I can see some sacrificing themselves for others...
We should be able to change our desires after all, by controlling the effect of pleasure from whatever cause.
Perhaps survival may always be the trigger for pleasure: one who see's sacrificing themselves for another as the right thing that pleases their god would mean that they're acting for the survival of their soul... If somehow all causes and effects are being seen for how they can promote one's survivability and if survival instinct triggers a pleasure response... then we have our answer. So, a cause and effect we ultimately choose because of pleasure would be because we ultimately see it as promoting our survival...
Just seeing something, even unconsciously, as promoting our survival, even if it's not true, may be enough to trigger a pleasure response. This could explain why there is so many different pleasures which definitely do not promote one's survival... (I have Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. I shall attempt to read the entire thing.)
Perhaps desires for knowledge are because knowledge, at least consciously or unconsciously thought, may hold the cure for mortality...
Since we are all different, with different strengths and weaknesses, and existing in different situations, we inevitably create drastically or subtly different survival strategies...
One who sacrifices themselves, with no conscious or unconscious strategy for the survival of their soul, so is truly acting against their nature could be only doing so because of manipulation of some kind. Perhaps whenever we find one who is truly altruistic (as defined in "The Selfish Gene") it is because manipulation of some kind has brainwashed this one...
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~
lol. "The truth will set you free." This couldn't possibly by more true with the truth that morality is relative and so that one is justified, internally and externally (though not necessarily relative to particular moralities) in doing ANYTHING. If there is an all powerful God it doesn't change this fact, though it does mean moralities which aren't encompassed by this God are fucked. Just like a society with a morality not encompassed by an other society that is much more powerfull and that forces their morality on others is fucked.
A society is an entity (a "womb" perhaps) that is created by the common desires of the individuals that it encompasses. Its only function is to facilitate the attainment of the common desires by the individuals... So, indeed ask what your country can do for you.
I want a society that can facilitate the attainment of my desires, so I need to seek out a bunch of nice perverts who want to fly around in space in cool uniforms and have a distinct language and technology. :D
A benefit of being around people who are like you and who want to be what you want to be is that it can help you become better at who you are and to become what you want to be.
What we are ultimately controlled by is our desires for pleasure, not by the... universe. It is most definitely possible to fight our "programming" to pull our hand out of the fire, yet the unpleasureable effects of the burn would most likely cause us not too. I think that if we determine a particular cause and its effects to be unpleasureable all the time it can become second nature for us to not do the cause. So we have programmed our selves... but our desire for pleasure can cause us to change our programming...
They probably know what pleasure is in a human and I think there is only one... type of pleasure and that it can come in different degrees. Let's just say that this is the case. Why do things cause pleasure? I don't think it's when a thing aids our survival (at least all the time) since I can see some sacrificing themselves for others...
We should be able to change our desires after all, by controlling the effect of pleasure from whatever cause.
Perhaps survival may always be the trigger for pleasure: one who see's sacrificing themselves for another as the right thing that pleases their god would mean that they're acting for the survival of their soul... If somehow all causes and effects are being seen for how they can promote one's survivability and if survival instinct triggers a pleasure response... then we have our answer. So, a cause and effect we ultimately choose because of pleasure would be because we ultimately see it as promoting our survival...
Just seeing something, even unconsciously, as promoting our survival, even if it's not true, may be enough to trigger a pleasure response. This could explain why there is so many different pleasures which definitely do not promote one's survival... (I have Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. I shall attempt to read the entire thing.)
Perhaps desires for knowledge are because knowledge, at least consciously or unconsciously thought, may hold the cure for mortality...
Since we are all different, with different strengths and weaknesses, and existing in different situations, we inevitably create drastically or subtly different survival strategies...
One who sacrifices themselves, with no conscious or unconscious strategy for the survival of their soul, so is truly acting against their nature could be only doing so because of manipulation of some kind. Perhaps whenever we find one who is truly altruistic (as defined in "The Selfish Gene") it is because manipulation of some kind has brainwashed this one...
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~
Re: Ruminations. - Kazper