Posted by Kazper at 6:52pm Dec 27 '06Every pleasure of one cannot be satisfied by the other without causing unpleasure to the other, in which case one is not giving pleasure to the other. So, I think, that to be in a truly loving relationship (where each is gettting pleasure from giving pleasure) each have to deny themselves, at times, pleasures which do not give their other pleasure... Each, at times, have to get their pleasure by denying some pleasure, to give pleasure...
You do not love another at all if you do not get pleasure at all by giving them pleasure. This may not be good. It may be a necessity that we at least get a little pleasure by giving pleasure to ALL ("Love all as I have loved you"...) I was thinkin' for a second that most of one's love could be saved for one's partner but this may not be the case: the give and take (a true, intentful give and take) may be required for all...
If it is desire that we are to emulate God then we must try to treat all as He treats all and to treat one (a partner) as He treats us...
The quick assumption I'm pretty sure you are seeing as how to treat all is not correct, I think you have to look at the partner scenario to get a better idea...
The only reason I see to give pleasure to one who does not give back is to emulate God giving and yet not receiving, but the ultimate goad is for them to see the light and start to give back. Try to recall a time, amd I'm pretty sure there must be at least one, where you were completely ignorant of the gifts you were receiving and lack of appreciation your were showing that when you finally realized, it made you ill and you were very grateful for the continued persistance of the giver because the giver ultimately made you realize.
Ask the right questions to resonate with the right answers and you might just learn some cool ass shit.
I think God would not truly love us if He expected us to be the sole compromisers. If He only received and did not give.
To contemplate God can be an all day job. Though this work is pleasureable, as is all contemplation, even if at times it causes some frustration.
I think, perhaps, that I'm an odd mixture of sheep and wolf with the function of calling the wolves near without completely scaring the sheep away...
I think sheep, if not exactly as God desires, are much more naturally inclined to God's desired way...
Perhaps we are all odd mixtures of sheep and wolf, just to different degrees. Perhaps I am around the middle of this scale...
Truth is not relative: if someone said a thing then it is true that someone said a thing...
Another thing that I think is important is to accept the truth but accepting the truth doesn't mean anything beyond... accepting what's true. If it's true that there's a certain effect of a cause you have to accept that that's true but accepting it doesn't tell you to do or not do the cause. Pleasure, I still think, ultimately decides this and a truth may be that if your pleasures are not encompassed by what God accepts as lawful...
You are asked to forgive an infinite number of times to one who asks for it because God does the same for you.
To learn to love is to learn to get pleasure by giving pleasure. If everyone is loving then at different times some are getting and some are giving. There is compromise, meaning: one is not always getting or giving. (Technically yes, one is always getting in this situation becuase they get pleasure from giving and obviously the receiver is getting pleasure. I have to work on saying this clearer.).
...Hmph. We are still ruled by pleasure but, to be godly we have to go against what I think is our natural tendency to pick the greater of two pleasures and sometimes pick the lesser of two pleasures. The lesser of two pleasures has to be learned/discovered to be a pleasure and it is the compromising of a pleasure for the pleasure of another... Though... God knowing us, and in fact knowing Himself (He is like us. He is a pleasure being) offers the reward if we can learn to take the lesser pleasure at times... Though God Himself should be taking the lesser pleasure at times and there is no one offering Him a reward, so that makes Him a little different than us...
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~
You do not love another at all if you do not get pleasure at all by giving them pleasure. This may not be good. It may be a necessity that we at least get a little pleasure by giving pleasure to ALL ("Love all as I have loved you"...) I was thinkin' for a second that most of one's love could be saved for one's partner but this may not be the case: the give and take (a true, intentful give and take) may be required for all...
If it is desire that we are to emulate God then we must try to treat all as He treats all and to treat one (a partner) as He treats us...
The quick assumption I'm pretty sure you are seeing as how to treat all is not correct, I think you have to look at the partner scenario to get a better idea...
The only reason I see to give pleasure to one who does not give back is to emulate God giving and yet not receiving, but the ultimate goad is for them to see the light and start to give back. Try to recall a time, amd I'm pretty sure there must be at least one, where you were completely ignorant of the gifts you were receiving and lack of appreciation your were showing that when you finally realized, it made you ill and you were very grateful for the continued persistance of the giver because the giver ultimately made you realize.
Ask the right questions to resonate with the right answers and you might just learn some cool ass shit.
I think God would not truly love us if He expected us to be the sole compromisers. If He only received and did not give.
To contemplate God can be an all day job. Though this work is pleasureable, as is all contemplation, even if at times it causes some frustration.
I think, perhaps, that I'm an odd mixture of sheep and wolf with the function of calling the wolves near without completely scaring the sheep away...
I think sheep, if not exactly as God desires, are much more naturally inclined to God's desired way...
Perhaps we are all odd mixtures of sheep and wolf, just to different degrees. Perhaps I am around the middle of this scale...
Truth is not relative: if someone said a thing then it is true that someone said a thing...
Another thing that I think is important is to accept the truth but accepting the truth doesn't mean anything beyond... accepting what's true. If it's true that there's a certain effect of a cause you have to accept that that's true but accepting it doesn't tell you to do or not do the cause. Pleasure, I still think, ultimately decides this and a truth may be that if your pleasures are not encompassed by what God accepts as lawful...
You are asked to forgive an infinite number of times to one who asks for it because God does the same for you.
To learn to love is to learn to get pleasure by giving pleasure. If everyone is loving then at different times some are getting and some are giving. There is compromise, meaning: one is not always getting or giving. (Technically yes, one is always getting in this situation becuase they get pleasure from giving and obviously the receiver is getting pleasure. I have to work on saying this clearer.).
...Hmph. We are still ruled by pleasure but, to be godly we have to go against what I think is our natural tendency to pick the greater of two pleasures and sometimes pick the lesser of two pleasures. The lesser of two pleasures has to be learned/discovered to be a pleasure and it is the compromising of a pleasure for the pleasure of another... Though... God knowing us, and in fact knowing Himself (He is like us. He is a pleasure being) offers the reward if we can learn to take the lesser pleasure at times... Though God Himself should be taking the lesser pleasure at times and there is no one offering Him a reward, so that makes Him a little different than us...
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~
Re: Ruminations. - Kazper