Posted by Kazper at 6:19pm Jan 31 '07Others treating you how you treat them may just be a most common effect from every cause, so is something to always consider.
Forgetting the Way as a means of generating at least one universal law let's just honestly look at pleasure... Can any pleasure seeking being desire something upon themselves that is undesired? No. So that is a truth from the truth that every being ultimately does everything because of their pleasure seeking nature. A [foundation law] of 'Do not violate.' and then getting everyone who wants to be a part of the [Whole] to consent to abide by laws that they do not consent to gets around the truth that morality is relative while staying in line with the universal truth that a pleasure seeking being can never desire something upon themselves that is undesired.
A problem with the [foundation law] of 'Do not violate.' is that it restricts us from punishing a violater who is not a citizen and so has not consented to abide by laws it did not consent to. We'd technically be violating our [foundation law] if we punished one such as this...
All pleasure seeking beings sharing the desire not to have what they do not desire done to them is a universal truth (if it is true, which I think it is) but this doesn't make it a universal morality that must be adopted because one stating that an other must accept truth should be stating a moral rule... of theirs...
I'm not sure how to solve the non-citizen violater problem while keeping the 'Do not violate.' [foundation law]... Pragmatism, I'm thinkin', is like a definite truth or somethin'... I think we may just have to allow for whatever solution to whatever problems... How we choose the soltutions is how we choose anything, except in a group it's done as a group... somehow... a certain fraction of consent most likely.
We could use discussion and consent among the [PIPs] to generate what we need from one to coexist with them.
Argh! I'm gettin' annoyed. I still feel like I want one thing to appeal too, because this one thing would be like a general rule which I could reference in times of moral crisis instead of trying to search through many particular rules and ultimately maybe still not finding my answer.
'Do not violate unless violated first.' solves the non-citizen violater problem while leaving the same solution for non-citizen non-violater and citizens but if this becomes our [foundation law] it would restrict us from taking preemptive action against another culture, which may be something that should really be done sometimes...
I guess we could just use discussion and consent among the [PIPs] to generate a general law that one can use when a particular law isn't known...
Ha! Our guiding principle for the creation of societal laws and personal laws, which are encompassed by our societel laws (which is in accord with our nature and which is what we're already doing) could be this: 'Examine and discuss (discussion takes place even by yourself because it's with yourself) causes and their effects and then do what you think best (do the cause with the most pleasureable effects with the most pleasureable effects with the most pleasureable effects...)
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~
Forgetting the Way as a means of generating at least one universal law let's just honestly look at pleasure... Can any pleasure seeking being desire something upon themselves that is undesired? No. So that is a truth from the truth that every being ultimately does everything because of their pleasure seeking nature. A [foundation law] of 'Do not violate.' and then getting everyone who wants to be a part of the [Whole] to consent to abide by laws that they do not consent to gets around the truth that morality is relative while staying in line with the universal truth that a pleasure seeking being can never desire something upon themselves that is undesired.
A problem with the [foundation law] of 'Do not violate.' is that it restricts us from punishing a violater who is not a citizen and so has not consented to abide by laws it did not consent to. We'd technically be violating our [foundation law] if we punished one such as this...
All pleasure seeking beings sharing the desire not to have what they do not desire done to them is a universal truth (if it is true, which I think it is) but this doesn't make it a universal morality that must be adopted because one stating that an other must accept truth should be stating a moral rule... of theirs...
I'm not sure how to solve the non-citizen violater problem while keeping the 'Do not violate.' [foundation law]... Pragmatism, I'm thinkin', is like a definite truth or somethin'... I think we may just have to allow for whatever solution to whatever problems... How we choose the soltutions is how we choose anything, except in a group it's done as a group... somehow... a certain fraction of consent most likely.
We could use discussion and consent among the [PIPs] to generate what we need from one to coexist with them.
Argh! I'm gettin' annoyed. I still feel like I want one thing to appeal too, because this one thing would be like a general rule which I could reference in times of moral crisis instead of trying to search through many particular rules and ultimately maybe still not finding my answer.
'Do not violate unless violated first.' solves the non-citizen violater problem while leaving the same solution for non-citizen non-violater and citizens but if this becomes our [foundation law] it would restrict us from taking preemptive action against another culture, which may be something that should really be done sometimes...
I guess we could just use discussion and consent among the [PIPs] to generate a general law that one can use when a particular law isn't known...
Ha! Our guiding principle for the creation of societal laws and personal laws, which are encompassed by our societel laws (which is in accord with our nature and which is what we're already doing) could be this: 'Examine and discuss (discussion takes place even by yourself because it's with yourself) causes and their effects and then do what you think best (do the cause with the most pleasureable effects with the most pleasureable effects with the most pleasureable effects...)
~Shawn Savoie~
~Ottawa, Ontario, Canada~